Wednesday, May 14, 2008



On Monday I highlighted Professor Dr Tajuddin scathing rebuke of the Berita Harian for its unenthusiastic report of the latest NS death. He further added:

"The story in Berita Harian seems to follow the same pattern as other reports I have read where it is made as if the victim ‘suddenly fell sick’ and suddenly died before the camp officials could react.

The Star report says that an internal investigation will be conducted. I don’t remember reading any report of all these ‘internal investigations’ in the media. Even if I did, as an academic I would not give much credence to a single source, totally non-independent committee report.

So parents, please, wake up. I send this message to YOU. The NS director-general is not going to listen. The political leaders don’t seem to care. So it is up to US. What should we do? Never mind the trainees are Malays, Indians, Chinese, Kadazans, Dayak, Iban or what-have-you. They are all OUR children.

We must demand a full independent and public inquiry made up of professionals selected by us and not appointed by those camp people. I am not anti-National Service. I am totally anti the camps’ leadership and management team. They should all be sacked and if they are proven cases of pure neglect, they should be prosecuted. No less.

In the mean time heed my words carefully. Call your children in the NS camps every two days. Don’t take any chances if your children call in sick. Go to the camp. Demand to see your children. Take them to your doctor. If the camp people refuse to give permission, camp outside the camp and make yourself a bloody nuisance until they do. These tips will probably safe your children’s lives."


A frequent commentator at my blog and also a former student, J D Lovrenciear posted this to Malaysiakini:

"The nation joins the parents of the more than a dozen NS youths who died while under the care and responsibility of all those who are paid or benefitting and in-charge of this much doubted programme.

Now do we blame, find an excuse or should one take responsibility?

The deputy prime minister has lambasted - in the wake of public concern and outcry - with a statement to that effect that this NS programme cannot be aborted as there is much to lose.

While as a minister privy to many of the official secrets, he may have his grounds to take a seemingly hardline stand but one reels flabbergasted for the obvious lack of empathy and sympathy.

What is the equation? Saving the lives of our young and promising future or the loss of material, financial and economic considerations?

And just in case anyone out there is tempted to holler back with that infamous standard Malaysian answer, ‘It is God's will’, the medical profession should act assertively and make known a learned public opinion without fear or favour over each and every child we lost through this National Service programme.

Please Mr Prime Minister, the nation looks towards you for an answer. And if such is not forthcoming in a timely and affirmative manner, the consequences arising from the subsequent public perception will only weigh-in even deeper. And after-thought facts and accrued statistics will surely only add to nought.

The very fundamentals of safety dictate that an accident only occurs when two factors combine, namely an unsafe act and an unsafe condition.

If we are to allow common sense to prevail, then the deaths of our helpless, innocent young within the camps after all these years can only be explained by virtue of someone's incapability, insensitivity, incompetence - short of cold, inhuman brutality.

Now who will take the rap? Please do not jump in with a politically-motivated finger pointing at the lost souls."




Anonymous said...

Zorro Sir,

I want your honest answer Sir.

Do you want more of them youth to die on the streets in illegal races or on drugs?

I do think these kids will be better off at the NS camps. Honestly I do.


Anonymous said...

anon 10.55 pm

you mean sending them to NS for 3 months is the answer to the mat rempit and drug problems?
with NS, death from drug overdose and illegal racing will be lower?
can someone show him the statistics of deaths from drug overdose and illegal racing before and after the commencement of NS?

zorro said...

YgAriff, I am against the current structure this NS is run. I want sit patterned like Singapore's NS, structured professionally and run professionally. If the current structure is not reformed, there are bound to be more unwanted incidents. As a former teacher, besides imparting knowledge, discipline to prepare the kids was uppermost in my to do priorities. I drew that line and god help you if you cross that line. Three months to instill discipline and promote integration should have been done in the 11 years in school. Sir, this NS is a knee-jerk, quick-fix. I always champion integration and I never allowed, if I could help it, two kids of the same race to sit together in class.

The Mat Rempit menace was not nipped in the bud. You must admit this. They were given iconic status by none other than KJ and the head of UMNO Putera. They were given status at Ijok. The police were soft on MR and the judiciary thought nothing of administering the proper dose of punishment.

Our rehab centres are flawed. Drugs still find their way into these centres thru official "intermediaries". Lets not kid ourselves that this is not happening.
YES! NO to what the NS is now. Honestly I do.

Anonymous said...

everything about your stand on this NS so far is substantially correct, except that part about the PM.

We think by now all shud be clear that he is quite useless really when it comes to doing these type of things. Afterall he is the master of super corriders not petty inconsequential children's lives.

if you have to contiuously look up to the PM and dream he can help all of us then you have indeed a bigger problem and its just too bad and negates all your noble plans.

We really hope in all future postings you assume he's f$&#$%^G d%)# ! and gone and just concentrate on the best practical solutions without looking up to such idiots, which by all accounts are the culprits behind the malaise.

a direct strike befitting a hero

Anonymous said...

Uncle Zorro,

You must understand this is Malaysia la. Everything boleh one.

Anonymous said...

Zorro Sir,

Thank you for your honest answer.

From your reply I gathered that what you really meant here is "Say Yes to NS but one without any flaws".

If that is so, I salute you Sir.


Malaysian Joe said...

Zorro and Haris,

The Say NO to NS will not work with just candlelight vigil. We need huge numbers to decline sending their kids into these concentration camps and have a panel of legal eagles to represent them in any event.

We will continue to say NO and to take the matter to the courts until they reform the NS to be well equipped and run by professionals. No death is necessary especially "sudden death" due to stomach upset, fever or drowning in toilet.

We sent our kids there in good health and cheer. We do not want to have them returned to us in a box. We are not at WAR for goodness sake.

Shanghai Fish said...

YgAriff, what can NS do in 3 months that a kid (with all due respect to parents, including me ) whose childhood years have been "sheltered" from mixing with other races, not taught civics, respect for elders,cultures and religion and sex in schools, acheive ? All the above values starts very early in our lives both by us parents and in schools but somewhere along the way over 50years, some bigot (read our generation !) in the education system (and the police for the absolute lack of enforcement and laziness thus allowing drugs and mat rempits to flourish) screwed it up for these kids ! Can we undo this shit in 3 months ? No way I say and, in 6 years time I'll see these morons in court if they come for my girl. So help me God !

zorro said...

Ylang Arif, you said: From your reply I gathered that what you really meant here is "Say Yes to NS but one without any flaws".

EXACTLY!Temporary suspend it. Do major overhaul of organisation from Chairman. camp commandants to trainers & caterers. Fumugate and detox, and smoke out the whole outfit of crony parasites and their proxies.We have good people but they are not crony-related and are never in the loop. "one without any flaws (defects)" would be close to 6 Sigma and that would be too much to expect, but what choice do we have? I always say this to the powers-that-be, the decision makers who hire me to assist in their re-structuring: Get rid of that shit about "Do IT Right the first time"....very often IT was the not the right thing to do. I ask them to "DO THE RIGHT THING RIGHT, THE FIRST TIME AND ALL THE TIME." It calls for OWNERSHIP by the top cats. Until they OWN it, you will continue to hear Najib and Lam Thye make unprofessional and embarrassing pronouncements.

Anonymous said...


Hey great idea, we should re-propose that National Service be for Drug Addicts, Mat Rempits, Gangsters as:

a) Can convert these people to be law-abiding citizens just after a 3 months indoctrination program

b) And should they died in the camp, well after all:
- they might died on the streets anyway
- a good solution to clear our society of bad influences
- doubt any of their parents will miss them / or complaints against the gov't as they are un-controllable, and the gov't is actually doing these parents a great service

Anonymous said...

NS is a scam to make MONEY. Under the pretext of national unity our children are forced to become guinea pigs to this scam programme.

UMNO will NEVER listen! They will never give up such easy and golden money spinning programme. They will maintain their stand even if another 100 were to perish. Because deaths are just statistics for them.

We need to protect our children from this predative government! EITHER BOYCOTT THE NS OR DO A DEMO ALA HINDRAF!

Anonymous said...

Zorro, shanghaistephen Sirs and all,

Excuse me but I prefer to keep politics out of this argument.

Better late than never. We cannot undo the past but we can always mould something new. I’ve been to a 3-day Team Building training and came out with a new me.

3 months can do a lot for these youths.

If not for all the 80,000 trainees, even if only 10% of them benefited from the NS programme, it means churning out 8,000 of quality youths. And hopefully, one of them is our kid.


zorro said...

People, YgArif asked honest questions. I read his sincerity. He just wanted honest answers. It would do well to let this matter be. Peace to all men of good will.

YgArif, as a trainer, participants tell me that they benefited from my days with them. But I always tell them that the feel-good must be sustained. What they learn they CAN DO must be translated into MUST DO in the work place. Now here is the problem when bosses put up barriers when you translate your Can Do into Must Do. Only when bosses allow you to do the MUST DO can one say that the course is of benefit. Good luck to you and hoping that your bosses allow you to translate your 3 days into fruition for the betterment of those you have to work with. Cheers son.

Malaysian Joe said...


How can we keep politics out of NS? Who proposes NS? Who wants to keep NS going?

Why would those politicians who are in politics want to keep the NS going?

Money! and loads of it! The whole gravy train will derail if NS is called off! So the deaths are all collateral damages for those on the gravy train? Justified? Put yourself in the shoes of the parents of the decease and tell me honestly if you will say, "Its ok! coz its NS."

However I fully agree with anon 9:57, NS should be for the rempits, drug addicts to try to rehabilitate them.

Malaysian Joe said...

3 months can do a lot for these youths.

If not for all the 80,000 trainees, even if only 10% of them benefited from the NS programme, it means churning out 8,000 of quality youths. And hopefully, one of them is our kid.

True, 8k out of 80,000, but I dread if that 1 death is my kid. But, I do believe education to be of quality will not take only 3 months. Get my drift?

Shanghai Fish said... moron !THIS IS POLITICS and kick-started by POLITICIANS and their half-baked dreams to riches and YOU better get that into your THICK SKULL with a vacuum and stop your bullshit preaching (your right to comment anyway...and my right to refute !) here about 3 day team building shit ok ? How much did you have to pay for the course... or how much do they pay you to write this comment of yours here eh ?
These kids are sent to NS on the tax-payers blood and sweat money and some POLITICIAN MORON and his cronies are laughing all the way to the bank while the parents of dead kids weep !
You have any kids who died bozo YgAriff???

Sheeesh zorro...all kinds of cyber-operatives on your blog man!

Anonymous said...

"He said these casualties represented 0.004 percent of the 339,186 trainees who have gone through the programme since 2004".

Said the DPM. This heartless man has no conscience. A single death is already too many for a programme of this nature. Racial interaction and discipline instillation can be carried out in a cheaper way and in a safer environment than the current NS.To say that the 3 months NS programme has tremendous benefits is to simply admit that our school system with all the moral and religious teachings have failed. Do not compare this with the Singapore NS. Theirs is for all Singapore MALE and they are housed in proper army camps with proper food and medical facilities for two years. Theirs is for the defence of the country. The Malaysian NS is just a horror holiday outings. The PM has not spoken a word regarding the deaths of the trainees. What a caring PM who says I listen to the people. Mr. PM stop the killing immediately.

zorro said...

Hold it Shang...the week-end spa treatment has not de-stressed you mate? I dont think YgArif s a trooper.....those have migrated to the tourism sector following their missy.

Malaysian joe....good piece.

Anon9:57am...great idea...NS for KJ & Azeez Rempits...they can bunk with the addicts and each can try to re-form or reform whatever their preferred inclnations. Why didn't Najib and Lam Thye think of this? Close all NS camps and use the existng rehab centers for this re-branded National Service Program. Kawan, I could nominate you for "Towering Malaysian Idea" of the year.

Anonymous said...

Zorro Sir,

Thanks for your understanding.

I think some of your commenters need to enrol themselves in a positive thinking course.

And going by the language they use, its not very difficult to find out where the kids nowadays inherit their manners from.

Maybe sending them to NS can help (again I'm thinking positive here).

Peace to all. :)

Anonymous said...

Tg Arif, If wisdom is really what you possess, you will intuitively realize that some commentators empathize with and are truly affected by the death of children not their own while politicians view the same data with no feelings at all.

You will then understand the anger expressed in these pages and not respond with 'smart ass' replies. I trust you will, in your infinite wisdom, take this (and every personal loss) positively. Cheers!!

Anonymous said...

Will they have practical lessons? Video tapes are banned because they are classified as ponographic. If it is just talk, talk, talk, it could be considered "prurient" behaviour if they tried to explain about 'masuk pintu belakang' or even seditious if they ever refer to any royal coitus style or preference.

Easier and cheaper if they make pron legal. UMNO can have sole agency and put out Arab videos for muslims and appoint MCA for non-Muslim (after all MCA's Dr Chua, yes that soi chap, has a certain amount of experience in such matters). All in all if it is done right it could be 'very blue' (or 'kuning' in Malay). As for Lee Lam They, he was always and probably is still a media tart -- all air and no substance. Giving him a Tan Sri has not made any difference.

Malaysian Joe said...

Yg Arif,

I beg to differ to think positive when a human life or more is at stake. After almost 20 years of painstaking effort to raise your child and no small amount of money involved, you definitely do want that to be snuffed out by some idiots manning the camps.

You paid thousands for your 3 day teambuilding camp. You get your training by professionals. Who are those training our kids? Can I demand to see their resume and interview each and everyone of them before I even allow my kids to go under their care?

My answer is still a vehement NO until the can guarantee responsibility and quality in NS. Until then, I say NO to NS.

No peace until justice to the dead.

Anonymous said...

"Say Yes to NS but one without any flaws". That's reasonable.

And the thing about parents always pestering their child in NS camps too is a good way. If they are concerned, and that would help the situation, it might push these people to really look at what is going wrong in NS.

Anonymous said...

m joe,

I sympathise and can understand how the grieving parents felt.

But when we belive in God, we had to accept death as inevitable.

There is no difference between a single death of an NS trainee with the 20,000 perished in the Chengdu earthquake. Everything is fated.

Can we blame God when we owe our existence to Him?

Back to Too Hui Min... reading from the news reports, she seems to enjoy her stint and was very enthusiastic about the firearm training, an experience that she might not be able to get anywhere else.

If she had not died, I'm sure she will be among the thousands of beaming NS trainees in the passing out parade and would have made her parents very proud.


Malaysian Joe said...


That is your belief. Do not enforce upon others your belief.

No compulsion... right?

Death by old age... by illness or an inevitable accident. Yes, will of God.

Death by negligent camp administrators? You seem to take the good and ignore the bad. While I would like the bad to be ironed out before the good can be appreciated by all.

Anonymous said...

m joe,

If you have read my comments here from the beginning, you would have understood my stand on this issue.

Even Zorro agrees with me i.e. "Say Yes to NS but one without any flaws".

Need I say more?

Peace to you.

YgArif :)

Malaysian Joe said...

Yg. Arif, even if Zorro agrees with you do I not have the right NOT to agree with you? You are merely displaying the symptoms that you are right while everyone else is wrong... and while Zorro agrees with conditions, you take it as a complete agreement that NS is good.

I have read your comments. You are equating NS to your "most enlightening teambuilding course" and that it would be beneficial to the youths. Beyond that it was mere ramble about the positives that you can glean from having your kids in NS. Can I not agree? Oh I forgot, you are right all the time. Symptomatic of BN....

Need I say more?